Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. I've owned a PS Audio The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). After a year of listening to various components I'm content. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. You are using an out of date browser. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Going by the performance of the Mola Mola Makua (pre with dac module) it will be extremely good. It will kick your ass. JavaScript is disabled. Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other I expected a lot better. Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. How does it compare? Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. The remainder Get a Lampi Golden Gate Dac and match it with the RK5u4g rectifier and PX25 DHTs or the RK242 DHT. DAC Comparison Reference DAC Modules 4x Hybrid DAC Clock The Femto 33 Digital Inputs 4x User Replaceable Input Slots Optical and Coaxial input module Included Analog Outputs Preamp XLR Output Module - 150 Impedance RCA output available with external adapter Analog Inputs XLR Analog Expansion Modules RCA or XLR Input RCA or XLR Output Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. You must log in or register to reply here. The Base module is used on the two lower DACs (including this one) and then the Preamp Output Stage for the top two DACs in the range. Thanks. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Auction bid 7 150 25 . Did I mention the remote is perfect? Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. The PSUs are available to match. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. luxury apartment hotels paris. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! Up to 1km lossless transmission. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. We feel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. Not a bad idea Snoop! I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. I agree with your statement. state his/her experience and preferences. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. The headamp is powerful but not involving. Any owners around here? Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. Strangely from this company is lack of any anti-aliasing on the text causing pixels to not be seen in the fonts chosen! I havent heard the Rockna. We are Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. You are using an out of date browser. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. The Prime DAC Module. It is worth every penny. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. None, despite working back as I always do if theres an issue! This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. Mola Mola dac and the Total dac. "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. I could easily live with any of these. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. The other issue is preference. I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Anyone make that comparison? Looking forward to the your additions to the list. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. Thank you, Mike. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. personal preference. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. What else should one expect? As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). Fixed. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . Does anyone have formula for that? I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. At $20,000 I recommend the MSB Premier DAC with two power supplies (KeithRs system). There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. But it need good system matching. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. By This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. To build a simple and good system). The world's largest high-end audio community. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. But dont take our word for it. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. Elegant design. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. If you go reference you will never look back. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. Toggle signature. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/, funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. I don't like Dave with or without upsampler but I do like Auralic G2 with their upsampler and clock. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. very important and our preference connection is an i2S connection. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. JavaScript is disabled. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-dac-that-crushes-price-vs-performance-ratio. But if you don't, what is your reference point? For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. Thanks. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. Is it too hot to touch? Couldn't agree more. it just complimented my system better than those other two. Rori is definitely welcome. Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. I called the distributor and we went through everything again. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home.
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