These arguments, in conjunction with the line about multi-variate analyses have shown the pay gap doesnt exist, are seemingly contradictory, at least on the surface. "Men are especially likely to place a greater emphasis on their role as financial providers," notes Kim Parker at the Pew Research Center. The researchers found that the number of people just showing up to the audition skyrocketed when switching to blind auditions. https://goo.gl/FwG9Mn And thats why the information that I publicized in Scandinavia caused a scandal that continues to reverberate. Thank you for this porn is something I am very concerned about too and it seems to be the elephant in the room (not wishing to insult elephants), its negative effects are too often just ignored or brushed under the carpet. Despite the results, myths and misconceptions about the gender pay gap persist. And many different groups of scientists have come to the same conclusions, and published those results in very good journals. Thank you I am female and this is exactly my view. Jan 20, 2018. The core of engineering is designing things to function under constraints observed in the world. That exists." "Yeah, but they're multiple reasons for that; one of them is gender, but it's not the only reason," replied the professor. We should agree with him women and men are different but so are men and men and so are women and so are chimps and chimps They are radically over-represented among those who view my YouTube lectures. You failed to mention that the author quoted Peterson and sent it to these experts who had time to formulate a rebuttal without allowing Peterson to defend his position. As one commenter (Peter Wright) on this thread says Peterson acknowledges. Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism Hey everyone! The real pay gap is between mothers and fathers, not between women and men. Jordan Peterson debates the gender pay gap with BBC Channel 4 News' Cathy Newman. https://goo.gl/z1JVeV But if you leave men and women to make their own choices you will not get equal outcome.. Cathy Newman however wants to shoehorn Peterson into an extreme position. https://goo.gl/smtUHY It points to how gender imbalances at work actually start much earlier, in education. Get it? Men are less agreeable (more competitive, harsher, tough-minded, skeptical, unsympathetic, critically-minded, independent, stubborn). But they are importantly different. How to reduce unconscious bias in recruiting, In other words, Peterson and Damore are simply arguing against change. That is not the case for men. Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism Channel 4 News 2.48M subscribers Subscribe 43M views 5 years ago Channel 4 News' full, fiery interview with. Some take a more charitable view, and concede the pay gap does exist. The full memo was about encouraging women in stem not excluding them. She writes that the distinction between fairness and equality was not explored satisfactorily in the exchange. To understand why the pay gap exists we need more data with more detail. Why advertise with us? Gender equality has been a hot topic in recent years, with many people advocating for equal pay and opportunities for women in the workplace. Are the differences bigger in some countries and smaller in others? But no matter what time I arrive or what time I leave, John is always there. Google, like other tech firms, is acutely aware of the lack of women and people from ethnic minority backgrounds among its teams. Doug, separating fact from opinion is sometimes quite hard, particularly when both parties to a debate are using research findings, sometimes the same research findings! Peterson mentioned women choose lower paying careers, but gaps still exists within most industries, including 66% lower earnings for female financial specialists, and 71% smaller incomes for female doctors (when age, education, race and hours were controlled). For example, PayScale issued a report entitled: " The State of Gender Pay Gap 2019 " based on a survey of 1.8 million wage earners. The conservative commentator has changed his tone recently about the de-criminilzation of Marijuana. One of the most popular youtube debates was between matt dillahunty and jordan peterson in 2018. But paying women less is inevitable, because there are inherent differences between men and womens labour: the primary one being childcare. I am quite happy with this the pay-off was worth it it is not all about the money! She says: I am disturbed by the tenor of some of the debates. . The gender pay gap is about comparing the wages of full-time working men and full-time working women, and working out why women earn on average $239.80 less per week than men. I think he is describing health care. . Watch "Prime Time with Alex Stein" LIVE Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays at 6pm CT/7pm ET: @PrimeTimeAlexStein In an interview with Channel 4s Cathy Newman, Jordan Peterson said these innate differences explained why the majority of nurses are women and the majority of engineers are men. This allowed for many socioligical variables to be kept consistent. He's tough, calm, smart, and, most importantly, he's right. https://goo.gl/D7m2a6 They want your perceptions to fall into accordance with their demands. window.mc4wp.listeners.push( This is what will help edge Western Culture back toward sanity when the Diversity Industry starts to lose lawsuits like Damores lawsuit against Google, and the 2nd lawsuit at Youtube (for avoiding while/male applicants) and those losses hit the bottom line in a real way shareholders and other ADULTS will take control back from the children and their insane demands. What about men who want a better work/life balance, of whom there are millions? Sign up now to get the Washington Examiners breaking news and timely commentary delivered right to your inbox. J. Andrew Dykens. John, author here. However that doesnt mean that the average I.Q. NewsNation - Tyler Wornell 1d. In objection to Zunger, engineering isnt all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist, author, and speaker. Men and women are not the same and wont be the same, but that doesnt mean women shouldnt be treated fairly (Jordan Peterson), Sheila Wild, founder of the EqualPayPortal and former Director of Employment Policy at the Equal Opportunities Commission, published a blogcritical of Newmans Peterson interview for heightening division. To make important, difficult decisions properly, competence is necessary. https://goo.gl/UrK6aq However, for Briner, Peterson does score some hits in his criticism of equality and diversity in organisations: HR must ask itself whether it is confusing the business case with a moral case. Her fifth book, The Alpha Females Guide to Men & Marriage: HOW LOVE WORKS, was published in February 2017. https://gynocentrism.com/2018/03/03/jordan-peterson-on-psychological-differences-similarities-between-the-sexes/. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering.. Damore claimed to be supportive of the goals of diversity, but was concerned Google was breaking the law to achieve racial and gender parity. He tells Newman thatmultivariate analysis of the gender pay gap shows that prejudice is only one small factor in the pay gap, one thats much less than feminists claim. In other words, a company can instill all the policies it wants, but it can't make people do what they don't want to do. It is the existence of children, not sexism, that creates the gender pay gap. With a vast online audience for his views, the sector needs to respond with hard facts and strong arguments, writes Adam McCulloch. Equality is a dishonest notion because those who use it do so to deliberately avoid distinguishing between equality of outcome (which is their real objective) and equality of opportunity, which is what normal, sensible reasonable people support. #1. Allegations and resignations shine unwelcome light on RAF Transport sector recruitment should be overhauled to improve Im not an activist: I just want fairer Driving performance and capability through L&D. But facts is facts, Im afraid, and no amount of neo-Marxist leftist postmodern suggestion that social science is a patriarchal construction is going to make the ugly truth disappear: Men and women are similar. **As always, should we become aware that Jordan has changed (or added to) his opinion or should new evidence be submitted that we have either misconstrued his opinion or failed to include important statements from him, we will 1) make the correction, 2) note the correction here, 3) issue a mea culpa that attempts to explain and improve on how we missed this. Author here. Dr Peterson empathises hierarchies of competence over hierarchies of power. While most men do not enter these fields either, far more men than women do. Ive been working in engineering for almost 35 years and I can say for a fact he is not describing engineering. Well attempt to unpack his arguments about the gender pay gap, and the literature surrounding the gender pay gap all while attempting to keep a certain level of objectivity. Zunger adds: Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. One of the trips to Stockholm was limited to press interviews and television (see here). Photograph: Channel 4. The most recent study, published in Science (by researchers at Berkeley, hardly a hotbed of conservatism and patriarchy) showed a relationship between a wealth/egalitarian composite measure and sex differences that was larger than that reported in 99% of published social science studies. Weve pulled together some of the most common myths to help you navigate the pay gap deniers. So they actually help his case. The method? Overall, it's a level headed and fact-based opinion. In the last lecture, in Helsinki, it was Finlands Fathers Day, so I talked about masculine virtue. All in the name of redress for some hypothetical prejudice, a consequence of the patriarchal tyranny, experienced in large measure by vaguely apprehended women of the past and definitely other than themselves. . Over the last five decades or so, psychologists have aggregated great numbers of personality trait features, using adjectives, phrases and sentences, throwing virtually every descriptor contained in human language into the mix, in a remarkably atheoretical manner. One of them is the difference in personality (agreeableness) and part of it is also prejudice. So the gender pay gap is a myth. As most people know (unless they've been living under a rock), Peterson is the clinical psychologist and author of the wildly successful book, 12 Rules for Life, who in January took on Cathy Newman of U.K.'s Channel 4 in a debate about the pay gap. (There is an extensive but by no means complete listing of papers relevant to this issue at the site of my interview with James Damore, the Google engineer who was fired for possessing accurate knowledge of the psychological literature). Its a one way ticket to a more fractured society. Men and women are essentially equal in their intelligence, and they differ very little in conscientiousness (which is the second-best predictor of success, after intelligence). Jordan Bernt Peterson (* 12. . All those other silly kids thought two wrongs was sill two wrongs. Its not the average more aggressive/less agreeable male thats in prison. Only 23% of the UKs science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM) workforce is female. I chose to have a 15 year career break, and consider I was fortunate to be in a position to do so. This is in keeping with their proclivity, also documented cross-culturally, to manifest higher rates of violence and antisocial or criminal behavior, such that incarceration rates for men vs women approximate 15:1. Stella Creasy discusses the gender pay gap on Sky News. In his interview with "60 Minutes," Peterson points out that not only do women work fewer hours than men, they choose different careers. We all understand fairness, or think we do, but very few of us understand equality. He was fired for voicing that opinion. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering. . Peterson argues that given the lack of science, they are skewing the argument, and I largely agree thats correct. He has spoken against misleading claims about systemic inequality such as the "gender pay gap," opposed subjecting minors to transgender surgeries or drugs, and warned against defining persons primarily by group identity rather than by individual traits. I accept that as a result I have less experience than I would have otherwise had, and therefore a lower salary. Satya said: If anything, to me it is a very good example of why arguments about the UK wage gap will not be solved with "feelings," which is her argument. -> She adds that Peterson was selective with the facts Source: www.youtube.com Very sad. I must unhappily admit that a great many contemporary feminists are made of straw Men and women are not the same and wont be the same, but that doesnt mean women shouldnt be treated fairly., There are other reasons why equality is unattainable, Peterson explains: Many women around the age of between 28 and 32, have a career-family crisis that they have to deal with. According to ONS data from 2015, women still perform the bulk of unpaid domestic work, including childcare, laundry and housework. The biproduct of the IAT has been that it makes people resentful of not only having to take the test but of the whole concept, which is the opposite of the intention of the test. He amplifies Bhayanis point that testing without action is pointless, adding that fairness has become an important goal: Fairness means a lot. Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. The gender pay gap does not exist because men and women are paid less for the same jobs, it exists because men and women tend to do slightly different jobs. Seems there is an extreme reluctance to face some brute facts about the clear differences between men and women and their preferences when making work/life decisions. One of the creators, and there were only three, has completely abandoned the project, because it is being used for purposes it was not designed for. engineering is all about empathy Seriously? Last year, Petersons criticisms were thrown into sharp relief by the debate over Google software engineer James Damore, who had attacked the internet giants flawed diversity agenda. In it, the producers spin a tale to suggest that discrimination, or as they put it, the "battle of the sexes," is the reason why women make less money than men throughout the course of their lives. He was told to "crawl back under a rock" by Sweden's Foreign Minister and engaged in a heated discussion about the paradox of gender equality in progressive societies with the leader of the Centre Party, Annie Lf. Gender gap in health service utilisation and outcomes of depression: A cross-country longitudinal . sometimes, in order to achieve equality, its necessary to be unfair thats because much inequality derives from past unfairness.. But if you walked into a roomful of people everyone of whom had been selected to be the most aggressive person out of a 100 almost every one of them would be male. I picked up on that as well. As might be expected, Peterson is not a fan of the growing desire to test and train in the area of unconscious bias. Lets be clear: are we doing this for business or for moral reasons?. I was interviewed by the Diversity Officer (woman) who asked how I would work in what had been an all women team of 10. These of course would override any sort of group preference in determining what sort of work one enters into, although its significant to note the acknowledgement of a field as being womens work, suggesting that there are particular qualities of the job that women are innately drawn towards. That statistic is from the Workplace Gender Equality Agency (WGEA), who are tasked with promoting and improving gender equality in Australian workplaces. You can reduce bias by some fairly simple means: getting people to evaluate several CVs at the same time taking each criterion in turn; taking the names off CVs; when conducting appraisals setting an objective of accuracy., Another stout defence of unconscious bias work comes from Jane Farrell, chief executive of the EW Group. Jordan Peterson has had several viral clips of him discussing the gender pay or lack thereof. Western Culture is wasting a fortune to prove these PC ideas are as insane and unnecessary as they sound and meanwhile falling behind on the actual focus of the business at hand. Article 106849 . Now it may seem small but the main thrust of Jordans argument is that part of what can explain the pay gap is that women are just high enough on agreeableness so that makes them less likely to negotiate agressively for higher pay. Weve already seen that in Scandinavia. Cookies policy See below for a distribution chart. Another approach would be to change the nature of the job to make it more friendly to women. The data shows eight in 10 companies pay male employees more, and some companies pay the men twice as much as women on average. Toronto University professor Jordan Peterson, who rose to international fame due to his opposition to mandatory gender-neutral pronouns, as well as criticism of feminism and socialism, has often referenced "feminist" Scandinavian countries as having the highest gender differences in the world, despite their commitment to equality. Why is this even a controversy? He describes implicit association testing (IAT), developed by psychologists in the US, as deeply flawed because, he claims, they cant reproduce results with the same individuals, so are unreliable. Women who have decided for a better work/life balance should realise that the payoff is just that; a better work/life balance, which is more valuable that the small financial price that is paid. Read The Myth of Male Power by D.r Warren farrell or books by Jordan Peterson and you will find the evidence about how women getting 75% of the pay of men is a myth. ", When the interviewer asked him why jobs that involve working with people can't be measured alongside jobs that involve working with things, Peterson correctly noted that work which is relationship-oriented nursing, teaching, child care, elder care isn't "scalable.". // . And why should we presume that we know how in any manner to eliminate gender identity among young children? They get worse not better. And the relationship is not small. Its proving very difficult. Im allowed to be a racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobe, etc. For 50,000 years men and women have behaved in a way that enabled us to thrive, not just survive- cooperating, dividing tasks, and living in tribes. This should be done by someone not performing appraisals. Ah yes, people all too easily forget that equality is not a one-way street. To take up Petersons example, its true that engineering is dominated by men. As with all averages, it smooths out nuances and doesnt account for differences in specific job roles, age, or previous experience. Adam McCulloch is a freelance writer and production editor who has worked in sectors including travel (The Guardian), aviation (Flight International), agriculture (Farmers' Weekly), music (Jazzwise), theatre (The Stage) and social work (Community Care). Im surprised by your comment. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . If women do not try to negotiate for better pay aggressively, and are therefore not getting the pay they deserve then a gender pay gap exists. This statement was unchallenged, why was Sheila Wild not asked to expand on why being unfair is necessary. It's the question keeping women and diversity advocates up at night, and one outspoken academic supposedly has the answer - we can't. Jordan B Peterson, clinical psychologist and author of self-help book 12 Rules for Life, believes there are too many differences between male and female brains for women to ever achieve equal standing across every . Visiting the sins of the parental peoplekind on the children peoplekind simply leads to more divisiveness in politics, on campus and in society at large, as is now happening in Canada as governments go down this path that Wild and many others interviewees laud. By selecting 50% of his cabinet from 26% of the pool of available candidates, Prime Minister Trudeau abdicated his responsibility to rank-order all of his elected officials by competence (which could have been done by blind, multi-person rating of their resumes, including education and accomplishments) and staffing his cabinet from the most qualified person downward. HR departments shouldnt push left wing ideological propaganda. -> Peterson has a myopic view of research and uses it selectively for his purposes.. callback: cb Shared parental leave (SPL) was introduced in 2015 but only 3.5% of eligible families chose it in 2018, according to research by telecoms company PowWowNow. They say he has failed to take account of the historical changes in gender roles or business and employees desire for fairness through equality of opportunity. Emma Griffin, professor of modern British history at the University of East Anglia, wrote a compelling account of how work was gendered and how these gender distinctions came to be seen as natural. I am not here to advocate Mr. Jordan B. Peterson but Open in app The beauty of the study is that many of the orchestras in the study either did not always utilize blind auditions in the past or were just transitioning to blind auditions. Some of these supporters pay $200 a. content language. And there is a major but. Resentment builds in whichever group perceives itself to be the most disadvantaged. Petersons main argument is simple: Science itself is immoral. Its no wonder that when I came bearing this news the Swedish Foreign Minister (a proud member of the worlds only self-proclaimed feminist government) suggested publicly that I crawl back under my rock, and that one of Swedens leading female politicians objected on primetime TV that her daughter could be raised to be anything she wants to be. And void of objective evidence that those belief systems are coloring my work-related behavior or impacting my organization (in which case there are ample laws allowing for my dismissal and protecting my employer from my behaviors) its not my employers business. During the YouTube discussion Damore alleges that Google held meetings to pressure people to increase the diversity of their team. I was wondering what everyone thought about this recent debate Jordan Peterson had on the television show - "Channel 4 News" Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54&t=70s 4 63 63 comments Best Add a Comment And while training can improve scores on the IAT, again the improved scores have shown zero correlation with behavior. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company.. Again, there is an element of truth here. Instead, they insisted the pay gap is a result of discrimination. But then there are comments such as this: CEOs should wake up and understand that HR is becoming an anti-capitalist fifth column in the middle of their organisations.. It literally appears in undergrad psych textbooks and units. This seems to be a direct challenge to the idea that increasing diversity enlarges the pool of available talent, and so has a positive effect on the bottom line as well as being fairer. "Women are more interested in people, while men are more interested in things. Peterson represents the first true apolitical yet formidable opponent to a media that is showing itself every day to be hopelessly out of touch with reality. We have no responsibility or desire to be an apologist for Jordan Peterson on any issue. powerful statistics can identify patterns. Similarly, when Peterson recently argued about women's rights with a Channel 4* interviewer, he tried to make the pay gap debates sound a lot more complex than it needs to be, insisting that we . Earlier this year I rented an office in a building I now share with a man named John, a husband and father who sells insurance. They only respond in vague generalities. The interviewer seemed eager to impute to Peterson a belief that a large, extant wage gap between men and women is a "fact of life" that women should just "put up with," though all those. My employer need only be concerned with how much of that I bring to work. The wage gap perception is a manifestation of hard-wired male/female differences and society would suffer in the long run if we mind-control people into believing those differences dont exist. What happens if you look at sex differences in personality and interest by country? Why cant any of these people present specific evidence that disproves Dr. Petersons claims? It reported that "women still make only $0.79 for every. If anything makes for a hostile workplace in business and universities it is the Mass acceptance of pornography. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering., The concensus view among specialists in the diversity field seems to be that Peterson is only explaining certain facets of the here and now. Mr. Peterson is a celebrity in the men's rights community, a loose collection of activists who feel men have been subjugated or betrayed by social progress. The IAT can reasonably demonstrate some level of difficult to measure implicit bias. However that does not mean we need unnecessarily vilify him. Its fair to point out the flaws in the statistics. Molyneux went on to cite the marriage gap (married women earn less, because they divide their time differently; single women . However, thats not exactly what he said and, as he never tires of telling us, hes very (x3) careful with his words. You cant distinguish racial [or any other kind of] bias from novelty aversion. According to Rob Briner, professor of organisational psychology at Queen Mary University of London, Peterson makes several points that HR leaders should heed. Reality: Canada's Human Rights Act does prohibit gender discrimination in pay. Those differences are a good thing. Some days I'm not in my office at all; some days I come in at 9 or 10 a.m. and then leave at 2 p.m.; and still other days I might not arrive until close to lunchtime. And viewers see right through it. The job of the Federal government is important, necessary and difficult. That's the message Jordan Peterson tried to get across when speaking to "60 Minutes." Peterson responds: Its distressing to hear that theres an acceptance of the idea that diversity can be mapped onto race and gender, especially with regard to performance there is no evidence of that [improved performance] whatsoever.. In another YouTube video, Peterson feels that gender pay surveys often produce a predetermined result:The co-variates you include in the equation determine the outcome of the equation. Referring to gender pay inquiries in the academic sphere in the US, he says that the goal is to conclude that systemic discrimination is at work, and they gerrymander statistics until they find a regressive equation that supports their initial claim. Peterson fully endorsed Damores views, interviewing him at length on his YouTube channel. Manchester United star Cristiano Ronaldo posted an image along outspoken and controversial Canadian author Jordan Peterson on his Instagram account over the weekend. I wonder who did? Hes being vilified along with Peterson and together they are being held up as the faces of the enemy. The Swedish research I refer to in the article about STEM subjects is really interesting theres a hyperlink to it.
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