pagan continuity hypothesis

Its proponents maintain that the affable, plump old fellow associated with Christmas derives from the character of Arctic medical practitioners. They're mixing potions. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. And I think sites like this have tended to be neglected in scholarship, or published in languages like Catalan, maybe Ukrainian, where it just doesn't filter through the academic community. And that the proof of concept idea is that we need to-- we, meaning historians of the ancient world, need to bring all the kinds of resources to bear on this to get better evidence and an interpretive frame for making sense of it. That's all just fancy wordplay. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group CHARLES STANG: We've really read Jesus through the lens of his Greek inheritors. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. I mean, I wish it were easier. These Native American church and the UDV, both some syncretic form of Christianity. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. And when I read psychedelic literature or I read the literature on near-death experiences, I see experiences similar to what I experienced as a young boy. First act is your evidence for psychedelics among the so-called pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean and Near East. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? As much as we know about the mysteries of Eleusis. Again, it's proof of concept for going back to Eleusis and going back to other sites around the Mediterranean and continuing to test, whether for ergotized beer or other things. And shouldn't we all be asking that question? I go out of my way, in both parts of the book, which, it's divided into the history of beer and the history of wine, essentially. BRIAN MURARESKU: I look forward to it, Charlie. And you find terracotta heads that could or could not be representative of Demeter and Persephone, the two goddesses to whom the mysteries of Eleusis were dedicated. Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. And when we know so much about ancient wine and how very different it was from the wine of today, I mean, what can we say about the Eucharist if we're only looking at the texts? He's the god of wine. So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. There's no mistake in her mind that it was Greek. There's a good number of questions that are very curious why you are insisting on remaining a psychedelic virgin. Copyright 2023 President and Fellows of Harvard College. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. And I started reading the studies from Pat McGovern at the University of Pennsylvania. And then that's the word that Euripides uses, by the way. But I don't understand how that provides any significant link to paleo-Christian practice. His aim when he set out on this journey 12 years ago was to assess the validity of a rather old, but largely discredited hypothesis, namely, that some of the religions of the ancient Mediterranean, perhaps including Christianity, used a psychedelic sacrament to induce mystical experiences at the border of life and death, and that these psychedelic rituals were just the tip of the iceberg, signs of an even more ancient and pervasive religious practice going back many thousands of years. So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. Many people see that as symbolic or allegorical or just a nice thing, which is not the case. So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. That's just everlasting. An actual spiked wine. The Tim Ferriss Show. difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. I will ask Brian to describe how he came to write this remarkable book, and the years of sleuthing and studying that went into it. So to find dog sacrifice inside this Greek sanctuary alludes to this proto-witch, Hecate, the mother of Circe, who is mentioned in the same hymn to Demeter from the 8th, 7th century BC, as kind of the third of the goddesses to whom these mysteries were dedicated. What was the real religion of the ancient Greeks? Wonderful, well, thank you. And my favorite line of the book is, "The lawyer in me won't sleep until that one chalice, that one container, that one vessel comes to light in an unquestionable Christian context.". Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. So frankly, what happens during the Neolithic, we don't know, at least from a scientific vantage. Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2023 The Immortality Key has its shortcomings. The actual key that I found time and again in looking at this literature and the data is what seems to be happening here is the cultivation of a near-death experience. So back in 2012, archaeologists and chemists were scraping some of these giant limestone troughs, and out pops calcium oxalate, which is one of these biomarkers for the fermentation of brewing. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. Now I want to get to the questions, but one last question before we move to the discussion portion. But you go further still, suggesting that Jesus himself at the Last Supper might have administered psychedelic sacrament, that the original Eucharist was psychedelic. And that's what I get into in detail in the book. You obviously think these are powerful substances with profound effects that track with reality. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More (#646) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss 3 Annual "Best of" Apple Podcasts 900+ Million episodes downloaded Psychedelics Today: PTSF 35 (with Brian Muraresku) Griffithsfund.org What was being thrown into it? So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? Interesting. 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. What was discovered, as far as I can tell, from your treatment of it, is essentially an ancient pharmacy in this house. But curiously, it's evidence for a eye ointment which is supposed to induce visions and was used as part of a liturgy in the cult of Mithras. But it just happens to show up at the right place at the right time, when the earliest Christians could have availed themselves of this kind of sacrament. In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. 8 "The winds, the sea . Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. And they found this site, along with others around the Mediterranean. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. It pushes back the archaeology on some of this material a full 12,000 years. The Immortality Key, The Secret History of the Religion With No Name. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. And I'm happy to see we have over 800 people present for this conversation. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? Frankly, if you ask the world's leading archaeobotanists and archaeochemists, where's the spiked beer and where's the spiked wine, which I've been doing since about 2007, 2008, the resounding answer you'll get back from everybody is a resounding no. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. Then I see the mysteries of Dionysus as kind of the Burning Man or the Woodstock of the ancient world. That's staying within the field of time. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to. And what, if any, was the relationship between those ancient Greeks and the real religion of the earliest Christians, who might call the paleo-Christians. And I think oversight also comes in handy within organized religion. In the afterword, you champion the fact that we stand on the cusp of a new era of psychedelics precisely because they can be synthesized and administered safely in pill form, back to The Economist article "The God Pill". And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. It was-- Eleusis was state-administered, a somewhat formal affair. But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. CHARLES STANG: All right. So. So I don't write this to antagonize them or the church, the people who, again, ushered me into this discipline and into these questions. To become truly immortal, Campbell talks about entering into a sense of eternity, which is the infinite present here and now. So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? And please just call me Charlie. In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. So I point to that evidence as illustrative of the possibility that the Christians could, in fact, have gotten their hands on an actual wine. So whatever was happening there was important. We know from the literature hundreds of years beforehand that in Elis, for example, in the Western Peloponnese, on the same Epiphany-type timeline, January 5, January 6, the priests would walk into the temple of Dionysus, leave three basins of water, the next morning they're miraculously transformed into wine. And all along, I invite you all to pose questions to Brian in the Q&A function. And that kind of invisible religion with no name, although brutally suppressed, managed to survive in Europe for many centuries and could potentially be revived today. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. I expect we will find it. And if you're a good Christian or a good Catholic, and you're consuming that wine on any given Sunday, why are you doing that? I include that line for a reason. So this is interesting. And so with a revised ancient history, in place Brian tacks back to the title of our series, Psychedelics and the Future of Religion. And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. And so the big question is what was happening there? Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. All he says is that these women and Marcus are adding drugs seven times in a row into whatever potion this is they're mixing up. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. But it was not far from a well-known colony in [INAUDIBLE] that was founded by Phocians. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. And I asked her openly if we could test some of the many, many containers that they have, some on display, and many more in repository there. And nor do I think that you can characterize southern Italy as ground zero for the spirit of Greek mysticism, or however you put it. Is this only Marcus? So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. Nage ?] What does that have to do with Christianity? And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. Again, if you're attracted to psychedelics, it's kind of an extreme thing, right? I'm happy to be proven wrong. That's the promise in John's gospel, in John 6:54-55, that I quote in the book. It's really quite simple, Charlie. What does ergotized beer in Catalonia have anything to do with the Greek mysteries at Eleusis? . Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. He calls it a drug against grief in Greek, [SPEAKING GREEK]. I think the wine certainly does. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. And so that opened a question for me. And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. 48:01 Brian's psychedelic experiences . I mean, something of symbolic significance, something monumental. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. The continuity hypothesis of dreams suggests that the content of dreams are largely continuous with waking concepts and concerns of the dreamer. A rebirth into a new conception of the self, the self's relationship to things that are hard to define, like God. Now, I don't put too much weight into that. It's only in John that Jesus is described as being born in the lap of the Father, the [SPEAKING GREEK] in 1:18, very similar to the way that Dionysus sprung miraculously from the thigh of Zeus, and on and on and on-- which I'm not going to bore you and the audience. And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. Those religions featured psychedelic beer and ceremonies lead by women . For those who didn't have the time or the money or the temerity to travel all the way to Eleusis from Spain, here's your off-site campus, right? . What the Greeks were actually saying there is that it was barley infected with ergot, which is this natural fungus that infects cereal crops. You can see that inscribed on a plaque in Saint Paul's monastery at Mount Athos in Greece. You see an altar of Pentelic marble that could only have come from the Mount Pentelicus quarry in mainland Greece. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. CHARLES STANG: You know, Valentinus was almost elected bishop of Rome. And so how far should this investigation go? Not because it was brand new data. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. A profound knowledge of visionary plants, herbs, and fungi passed from one generation to the next, ever since the Stone Age? McGovern also finds wine from Egypt, for example, in 3150 BC, wine that is mixed with a number of interesting ingredients. You may have already noticed one such question-- not too hard. We still have almost 700 with us. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. And he found some beer and wine-- that was a bit surprising. Whether there's a psychedelic tradition-- I mean, there are some suggestive paintings. Something else I include at the end of my book is that I don't think that whatever this was, this big if about a psychedelic Eucharist, I don't think this was a majority of the paleo-Christians. There's John Marco Allegro claiming that there was no Jesus, and this was just one big amanita muscaria cult. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. I was not going to put a book out there that was sensationalist. They were mixed or fortified. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm bringing more illumination. I think psychedelics are just one piece of the puzzle. . Including, all the way back to Gobekli Tepe, which is why I mentioned that when we first started chatting. And it was their claim that when the hymn to Demeter, one of these ancient records that records, in some form, the proto-recipe for this kykeon potion, which I call like a primitive beer, in the hymn to Demeter, they talk about ingredients like barley, water, and mint. And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. So if Eleusis is the Fight Club of the ancient world, right, the first rule is you don't talk about it. BRIAN MURARESKU: Dr. Stang, an erudite introduction as ever. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! So the Eastern Aegean. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". One attendee has asked, "How have religious leaders reacted so far to your book? So, I mean, my biggest question behind all of this is, as a good Catholic boy, is the Eucharist. That to live on forever and ever, to live an everlasting life is not immortality. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? It's not to say that there isn't evidence from Alexandria or Antioch. And according to Wasson, Hofmann, and Ruck, that barley was really a code word. When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . And what we find at this farmhouse is a sanctuary that Enriqueta Pons herself, the archaeologist who's been on site since 1990, she calls it some kind of sanctuary dedicated to the goddesses of the mysteries. And this is what I present to the world. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. I don't know why it's happening now, but we're finally taking a look. Before I set forth the outline of this thesis, three topics must be discussed in order to establish a basic understanding of the religious terminology, Constantine's reign, and the contemporary sources. The big question is, did any of these recipes, did any of this wine spiking actually make its way into some paleo-Christian ceremony. OK-- maybe one of those ancient beers. Brian launched the instant bestseller on the Joe Rogan Experience, and has now appeared on CNN, NPR, Sirius XM, Goop-- I don't even know what that is-- and The Weekly Dish with Andrew Sullivan. And how can you reasonably expect the church to recognize a psychedelic Eucharist? Little attempt has been made, however, to bridge the gap between \"pagan\" and \"Christian\" or to examine late antique, Christian attitudes toward sexuality and marriage from the viewpoint of the \"average\" Christian. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact And that's the mysteries of Dionysus. The long and short of it is, in 1978 there was no hard scientific data to prove this one way or the other. I know that's another loaded phrase. CHARLES STANG: Yeah. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More | Tim Ferriss Show #646 That is about the future rather than the ancient history. Because again, when I read the clinical literature, I'm reading things that look like mystical experiences, or that at least at least sound like them. And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. And there were probably other Eleusises like that to the east. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. Where you find the grain, you may have found ergot. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. And I think we're getting there. Perhaps more generally, you could just talk about other traditions around the Mediterranean, North African, or, let's even say Judaism. Here's the big question. In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. Which is a very weird thing today. CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . Is there a smoking gun? If you die before you die, you won't die when you die. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. CHARLES STANG: Right. Or maybe in palliative care. Eusebius, third into the fourth century, is also talking about them-- it's a great Greek word, [SPEAKING GREEK]. And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. And I look forward to talking about this event with you after the fact eventually over a beer.

City Of Rockwall Permits, Articles P