As long as they are near their parents or the location of their parent's deaths, they will be in danger. Before the Vision could reveal the identity of the father, a battle erupted between Kree and Skrull forces over the fate of Hulkling. It appears that Plotinus attempted to clarify how the philosophers of the academy had not arrived at the same conclusions (such as dystheism or misotheism for the creator God as an answer to the problem of evil) as the targets of his criticism. The Neoplatonic philosopher Plotinus addressed within his works Gnosticism's conception of the Demiurge, which he saw as un-Hellenic and blasphemous to the Demiurge or creator of Plato. Knocks out multiple people simultaneously, Manipulates water to to knock away a Skrull. In Young Avengers vol. Comic Vine users. Wiccan becomes the target of all enemy attacks. William was believed to be Malachi, who attacked the Avengers during the Crossing story arc. The second principle is organization in its reflection of the nonsentient force or dynamis, also called the one or the Monad. So what he can one day maybe make a universe in how much time and at what cost? At the consummation of all things, all light will return to the Pleroma. Gnosticism presents a distinction between the highest, unknowable God or Supreme Being and the demiurgic "creator" of the material, commonly identified as Yahweh, the God of the Hebrew Bible. Clown move to be jumping the gun so quickly. Shocked and afraid at what he had done, Billy ran back to the Avengers Mansion to talk with the Scarlet Witch but she was nowhere to be found. Hippolytus claims that Simon used a similar description.[30]. The false other-worldliness of the Gnostics leads to immorality (ch. Then within this intellectual triad Iamblichus assigns the third rank to the Demiurge, identifying it with the perfect or Divine nous with the intellectual triad being promoted to a hebdomad (pure intellect). like very very gay Wiccan and the Young Avengers fought alongside the New Avengers to end the conflict. He also is vitally important in Avengers: Children's Crusade (which is more or less an unofficial volume of . In the theoretic of Plotinus, nous produces nature through intellectual mediation, thus the intellectualizing gods are followed by a triad of psychic gods. So am I supposed to repeat the same thing over and over again, too? @j2111: Yeah, I've seen all that before. @demiurgekaplan: multiversal demi urge has been debunked, https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/demiurge-wiccan-vs-hom-wanda-vs-white-phoenix-jean-2159484/. "Billy Kaplan was a normal high school boy until he discovered his power of Electrokinesis and became one of the heroes he admired. After looking into it, Sam Wilson found that someone with Avengers membership and passcodes had helped the Skull escape. His abilities were first triggered when the Scarlet Witch used her . Understanding that there was no choice, Iron lad returned to the future, bidding his teammates farewell. In Middle Platonist and Numenius's Neo-Pythagorean cosmogenies, the Demiurge is second God as the nous or thought of intelligibles and sensibles[4] (Middle Platonism and Neo-Pythagoreanism overlapped: both originating in the early 1st century BC and extending through to the end of the 2nd century AD or even into the 3rd century). 22022: "Short statement of the doctrine of the three hypostasis, the One, Intellect and Soul; there cannot be more or fewer than these three. Am not jumping the gun, am presenting the evidence as is. Criticism of the attempts to multiply the hypostasis, and especially of the idea of two intellects, one which thinks and that other which thinks that it thinks. It's not fair. [28][43] In this most common form of Gnosticism the Demiurge had an inferior though not intrinsically evil function in the universe as the head of the animal, or psychic world. While Billy agrees to be tested, the Young Avengers help his to escape from Avengers Tower. The Demiurge will rewrite the rules of magic and all the implications of that decision will echo forward and backward across all realities. He has to say the action he wants to happen in order for the spell to be cast. Especially considering said story isnt even completed and is still running so whos to say Catalina is lying? ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The work of Plotinus and other later Platonists in the 3rd century AD to further clarify the Demiurge is known as Neoplatonism. The ending panel for issue 3 is, Chavez "sister" revealing more people like her and America created by replicating America's mom's experiments. In this one-shot about the final adventure of the Avengers, Billy Maximoff chose to be a villain, calling himself the Grim Reaper. The group travels to New York to discuss what they should do, but they are found by Ms. Altman, and defeated. @j2111: @imquentin: And since all those nonsensical statements we've seen this lame deus ex machina in actual effect in New Avengers. 588 B. SMT. Something being made from a gods breath is standard prose about creation. Wiccan was greatly convinced that their connection to the Scarlet Witch was evident, though Tommy was more skeptical. Tanks eye beams from Sentry, and comes out unscathed. After they teleported, there was also a huge lightning bolt that staggered the Avengers. The former was dkaios, severely just, the latter agaths, or loving-kind; the former was the "god of this world",[41] the God of the Old Testament, the latter the true God of the New Testament. [7] This is the God above the Demiurge, and manifests through the actions of the Demiurge. Iron Lad had found Teddy Altman (Hulkling), Elijah Bradley (Patriot) and now Billy Kaplan (as "Asgardian") who all three agreed to help him, despite their lack of experience. He has to say the action he wants to happen in order for the spell to be cast. Wiccan, Speed, and Hulkling team up with Xavin and the Runaways to defeat the Super-Skrulls that are sent to assassinate Hulkling. The Young Avengers are seen fighting a terrorist group called the Sons if the Serpent. 1). Several systems of Gnostic thought present the Demiurge as antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Being: his act of creation occurs in an unconscious semblance of the divine model, and thus is fundamentally flawed, or else is formed with the malevolent intention of entrapping aspects of the divine in materiality. This being is considered not only blind, or ignorant of its own origins, but may, in addition, be evil; its name is also found in Judaism as the Angel of Death and in Christian demonology. He has received some form of training from Loki during his time in the Young Avengers. He even held the comic panels in his hands and manipulated what was going to happen in then for gods sakes Im pretty sure he takes this. The earliest Gnostic sects ascribe the work of creation to angels, some of them using the same passage in Genesis. pantheism). The Wiccan and Hulkling of Earth-616 didn't approve of this, and later Wiccan and Hulkling from Earth-721 was sent home. Youre trying to use something that yet to be finished or explained. I made The respect threads , and I'm telling you the unkindness is a problem. and our The Young Avengers were lured into a trap set by the Young Masters, who were waiting with Osborn's Dark Avengers to take down the YA. The team agrees to look for Speed and they use Miss America's interdimensional powers to find him. Last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49, introducing citations to additional sources, Learn how and when to remove this template message, Against the Gnostics; or, Against Those that Affirm the Creator of the Cosmos and the Cosmos Itself to be Evil, International Society for Neoplatonic Studies, Dark Mirrors of Heaven: Gnostic Cosmogony, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demiurge&oldid=1141744969, This page was last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49. Until that happens youre argument isnt gonna work its just loud at the point. The Young Avengers decide to give the newbies a chance, and announce that they will host try-outs, where each Lite member will be teamed up with one or more Young Avengers. Wiccan is destined to become the cosmic entity Demiurge though, so I'd say he has "more potentional" but is still very much in-training. Stature later defected to the pro-registration side, stating that she did not want to go to prison like Wiccan had. Around the time the two boys are physically 10, they begin to display superpowers, with Tommy having inherited his uncle Pietro's super speed and Billy displaying magical powers similar to the ones used by his mother. Isn't Raven a magic user? Loki tells them that they need his help in order to destroy the parasite, and they agree. This article is about philosophical concept of a Universal Fashioner. T. At the close of the series, Billy and Tommy are seemingly cease to exist after Wanda undoes her spell and frees Westview from her control, but the post-credits scene has Wanda hearing the boys calling to her, implying they somehow survived. The villain was specifically stated to be after the Demiurge abilities and to finally have them at full power when he destroyed one universe and seemingly himself along with it. He briefly achieves this form, and is able to view the past, present and future, as well as freely alter the universe. A second? The law of necessary procession and the eternity of the universe (ch.3). At full maturity, a Demiurge is stronger than any Nephalem, including one sired by an Arch-angel/demon and can use their unique powers to kill them with ease except not when one is using its true potential. He should win here. Mother is defeated, and all theteen heroes gather at MJ's Club to celebrate the new year. There the boys encountered Master Pandemonium who further strengthened their belief that they are the reincarnated souls of the Scarlet Witch's twin sons. Recognizing the Runaways under attack by registration agents on a monitoring screen, the Young Avengers set out to assist them and convince them to join the anti-registration side. Unkindness wins. Acts as a safeguard while the Scarlet Witch and Doom try to access the Earth's Life Force, which is what gave HoM Wanda her powers. Something to note is that Wiccan didn't know where he was teleporting to, so the spell probably just teleported him to safety. This_Confused_Guy 1 yr. ago He also has power over all realities and all possible worlds. It's unclear whether or not he uses magic here. Probably Raven if she is anything like what people pretend Demiurge Wiccan is. Wiccan's force fields have become progressively stronger through his time in comics. After a dangerous and adventure-filled trip through the multiverse, the team ventures to Mother's dimension to rescue Teddy. Like many other heroes, Wiccan and the Young Avengers were granted amnesty following the conclusion of Civil War. The Young Avengers agreed that in order for reality to stabilize, Iron Lad must return to his own time. They go to the Uncanny Avengers for help, but they too fall under the influence of the parasite. He joined Ultron in attacking the Avengers. This type of spellcasting has its flaws obviously. However, strange things begin to occur with the children, who rapidly age from infancy to school age through unknown means. After three months in exile, Wiccan and the team are approached by the former X-Man and mutant Prodigy, who tells them that Speed, Wiccan's twin brother, was kidnapped by a mysterious figure wearing a Patriot uniform. All realities mean omniverse. After a brief engagement, the Dark Avengers and the Masters were all but defeated. 2 yr. ago. At first, it was presumed that Billy was just an electrokinetic mutant with strong sorcery abilities. Since that night, Billy's father never did. His powers thus far have manifested on a localized scale in a variety of ways through the upper limit of his powers has yet to be seen. The "One" is further separated into spheres of intelligence; the first and superior sphere is objects of thought, while the latter sphere is the domain of thought. Youre really trying to use a brand new scan that hasnt been explained in a still unfinished story. Thus, a triad is formed of the intelligible nous, the intellective nous, and the psyche in order to reconcile further the various Hellenistic philosophical schools of Aristotle's actus and potentia (actuality and potentiality) of the unmoved mover and Plato's Demiurge. Christ, in reality, is the Son of the Good God. The Latin translation, confirmed by Hippolytus of Rome,[24] makes Irenaeus state that according to Cerinthus (who shows Ebionite influence), creation was made by a power quite separate from the Supreme God and ignorant of him. We dont know if shes telling the truth, so as of now its HAS NOT BEEN recton cause the story hasnt even given a chance to prove if shes telling the truth in the first place. The character has been depicted as a member of the Young Avengers, a team of teenage superheroes, as well as the Champions. The senseless jargon of the Gnostics, their plagiarism from and perversion of Plato, and their insolent arrogance (ch. Not to mention she proves that she can inhibit America's powers by dosing her with a counter serum. The Demiurge of Neoplatonism is the Nous (mind of God), and is one of the three ordering principles: Before Numenius of Apamea and Plotinus' Enneads, no Platonic works ontologically clarified the Demiurge from the allegory in Plato's Timaeus. Wiccan and Hulkling were surprised to discover their Earth-A counterparts signed up for the Initiative and joined the army without their knowledge. The Cathars held that the creator of the world, Satanael, had usurped the name of God, but that he had subsequently been unmasked and told that he was not really God."[48]. He is an archon with the face of a lion, half flame, and half darkness. 2, it is revealed by Loki that Wiccan is destined to ascend to a god-like reality warper who will rewrite the rules of magic known as the Demiurge. Iron Lad explained he needed help protecting himself from his future self, called Kang. hansfenton123 No she's above Hectate the goddesses of magic in the multiverse . New Music Friday: The best releases out on March 3 : All Songs Considered The best albums out this week include Kali Uchis' Red Moon in Venus, a self-titled joint from the Jamaican American artist . In the Apocryphon of John, Yaldabaoth is also known as both Sakla and Samael. But Jerusalem represents the creation or the Creator whom the Jews worship. The Young Avengers and the Super-Skrull fled the Kree. He has received two figures to date, one of which depicted his most well known costume, and the other of which depicted his original Asgardian outfit. Wiccan doesn't have sufficient control over his powers to fully utilize the Demiurge's powers. The Valentinian Heracleon[46] interpreted the devil as the principle of evil, that of hyle (matter). Later, the Neoplatonist Iamblichus changed the role of the "One", effectively altering the role of the Demiurge as second cause or dyad, which was one of the reasons that Iamblichus and his teacher Porphyry came into conflict. The ordering principle is twofold; there is a principle known as the Demiurge, and there is the Soul of the All; the appellation "Zeus" is sometimes applied to the Demiurge and sometimes to the principle conducting the universe. It was during this time that Iron Lad's future self, Kang the Conqueror arrived to bring Iron Lad back to the future and convince him to accept his destiny. The Superhero Database Classification number, or SHDB Class, is a number that represents the overall 'power' of a character. He called a large meeting, inviting everyone who'd ever held Avengers membership to join him in the Tower. However instead of recreating them as her children, they ended up as the children of other parents. Level 3: While Wiccan has the Power of the Demiurge, all of his matches will destroy their row or column. Carries Hulkling. Wiccan (real name William "Billy" Kaplan) is a comic book character, a member of the Young Avengers, a team of teenage superheroes in the Marvel Universe. The Young Avengers later encountered both Kate Bishop and the daughter of the late Ant Man (Scott Lang), Cassie Lang. Dice of the Skrull Kill Krew does the same and he is by all accounts not even particularly powerful. As the full-powered Demiurge, he casually removes Mother from existence, who is an extremely powerful matter manipulator, and removes everyone from the pocket dimension into the main universe. 14). 'wisdom'), the Demiurge's mother and partial aspect of the divine Pleroma or "Fullness," desired to create something apart from the divine totality, without the receipt of divine assent. In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. Later, Billy and Teddy joined the rest of their team, and helped the Avengers save what was left of Asgard. After discovering that Hulkling had been going out as a superhero without his knowledge, he and Wiccan fight over the choice to become superheroes again. Demiurge Wiccan has more impressive feats. In one of the many dark possible futures shown to Immortus by The Time Keepers; William and Thomas had become tyrannical God-like superhumans who were seen launching a devastating assault on Eternity in an attempt to overthrow him. Wiccan and Hulkling are thrown into a prison outside their dimension, but are rescued by Loki. Iron Lad had used a system he found in the remains of the Vision which helped locate alternative members for the Avengers for the next generation. However the utopian parallel was still created by the demiurge. [44] According to one variant of the Valentinian system, the Demiurge is also the maker, out of the appropriate substance, of an order of spiritual beings, the devil, the prince of this world, and his angels. Unkindness has fewer feats and it took her a whole longer to destroy the multiverse. The performance might range from a nudge to a certain existential state or outcome, to modified every reality in existence. Outside, Magneto arrives, saying that he wants Billy help to locate his daughter. Through magic, he is strong enough to clobber Loki. Wiccan would spend much of his time bouncing from team to team. Of the entire team of YA Lite, only Enchantress and Coat of Arms (who had been tested by her old acquaintance, Tommy, aka Speed) were asked to join the Young Avengers. With a thought, he puts a group of bad guys in a coma. Its existence was never retconned. Billy explained to the woman what had happened and was shocked to see the woman was none other than Scarlet Witch. None of which are multivetsal. The Monad emanated the demiurge or Nous (consciousness) from its "indeterminate" vitality due to the monad being so abundant that it overflowed back onto itself, causing self-reflection. As he writes in his commentary on John 4:21. Unhappy about this, Billy uses a location spell to find the team, and the real Young Avengers confront the false ones. He has received some form of training from Loki during his time in the Young Avengers, so he may take less time to cast his spells and have better control. When Billy leaves the team, Sunspot gifts him a NYC penthouse for he and Hulking to retire to. The team confronted the Super-Skrull and freed Hulkling. Billy gave up his superhero career, being mostly grounded by his parents who urged him to register. Billy scoffed at her advice and told her maybe if he had powers like her he could. @j2111: Hi may I ask where you got these 4th and 5th scans from? Plotinus, along with his teacher Ammonius Saccas, was the founder of Neoplatonism. The Super-Skrull noted that Wiccan seemed to have inherited the Scarlet Witch's magical and reality-warping abilities while Tommy has those of her twin brother, Quicksilver. forces, the heroes of Earth went to its rescue. William "Billy" Kaplan, also known as Wiccan, is a human mutant and magician. Hes even been mentioned in Strikeforce another recent comic book run with Wiccan himself. Eventually he is to become the Demiurge, a being that will change the very fundamentals of magic in the past and the future. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/raven-the-unkindness-respect-thread-2156619/, There's more too by the way I have not 100% updates that thread, Demiurge Wiccan is above time and reality, and the multiverse. Billy appears in the WandaVision TV series on Disney+, portrayed by Baylen Bielitz as a 5-year old and Julian Hillard as a 10-year-old. With a thought, he puts a group of bad guys in a coma. Wiccan. During a trap laid by Iron Man and the pro-registration heroes, in which they planned to immediately take out the resistance's teleporters - Cloak & Wiccan - Wiccan was captured and sent to the N-Zone prison for his involvement with the underground Avengers. 13:29 CJ Mars - K.D.D. Turner, "Gnosticism and Platonism", in Wallis & Bregman. Realizing that the Scarlet Witch must be a prisoner of Doctor Doom, Billy sneaks into Latveria on his own to find her. She reassured him that "Everyone has some gift," and advised him that next time he encounter Kessler, not to back down. The main character refers to the Demiurge as the entity who "fashioned and shaped" the material world. and apparently if he can't hear himself chanting the spell, it won't cast. It's unclear whether or not he used magic to defend at all. John Kessler was Billy's main nemesis and after receiving a beating that left him sore and bloody, Billy went to his favorite place to calm down -The Avengers Mansion. Undoubtedly, the Wiccan demiurge is very strong (high magic, rewriting of reality on high level and etc.). The Valentinian theory elaborates that from Achamoth (he kt sopha or lower wisdom) three kinds of substance take their origin, the spiritual (pneumatiko), the animal (psychiko) and the material (hyliko). With that Osborn took his leave, and left the team alone. In the various branches of the Neoplatonic school (third century onwards), the demiurge is the fashioner of the real, perceptible world after the model of the Ideas, but (in most Neoplatonic systems) is still not itself "the One". The wizard's power is so powerful it sent Adam through the multiverse and disrupted the omniverse, so this is another nice feat for the Unkindness." During this battle, Billy revealed his ability to cast spells where he had previously limited himself to lightning projection and flight due to his inexperience. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Billy Kaplan is a Young Avenger and later found out that he and Speed are the Scarlet Witch's formerly dead twin sons. For more information, please see our As such, he falls in with Blade's Strikeforce to track the shifters. Dude The Unkindness negs I can break this down if you want, and I talked too both authors . Following an analysis by Scholem this etymology no longer enjoyed any notable support. Humiliated and defeated, Osborn ordered the remaining members of his team to stand down, simply stating to the YA that, "This never happened." 1. He is a reality warper, according to Loki. Billy was impressed with the magical capabilities of Sylvie Lushton, aka Enchantress. (ch. (sorry i'm clueless but if this was true wouldn't that make him like the most powerful person in the universe? When Hulkling is hurt during the battle, Billy uses his powers to put the Sons into comas. Loki literally says "you're gonna rewrite the laws of magic across all realities". Vision confirmed the story of the twins. In the show, Wanda gives birth to Billy and his twin brother Tommy after moving to Westview to start a new life with Vision. [10] In this, he claimed to reveal Plato's true meaning: a doctrine he learned from Platonic tradition that did not appear outside the academy or in Plato's text. The team is quickly defeated even after the team of Initiative recruits arrive. In the Apocryphon of John c.AD 120180, the demiurge arrogantly declares that he has made the world by himself: Now the archon ["ruler"] who is weak has three names. After defeating Mr. Hyde, Patriot admitted that he had not inherited his grandfather's Super Soldier abilities and promptly quit the Young Avengers. He seems to be steadily losing ground, until Teddy appears to him. THE STORY ISNT FINISHED as I keep saying. In Pistis Sophia, Yaldabaoth has already sunk from his high estate and resides in Chaos, where, with his forty-nine demons, he tortures wicked souls in boiling rivers of pitch, and with other punishments (pp. A partially powered Demiurge (aka the Semiurge) holds off Mother's attacks, Fully turns into the Demiurge through the power of love. Theodoret,[25] who here copies Irenaeus, turns this into the plural number "powers", and so Epiphanius of Salamis[26] represents Cerinthus as agreeing with Carpocrates in the doctrine that the world was made by angels. Wiccan and Hulkling from this reality, also known as Earth A, came to Earth-616 as tourists, and for some reason they registered in the Initiative. His brother Tommy, who was a trained sorcerer, assisted the Avengers and the two fought each other until their father the Vision intercepted and destroyed Ultron, ending the battle. Wiccan is capable of a variety of feats, including, but not limited to: In House of M, Wanda recreated her sons William and Thomas as the younger members of the Magnus family. Gnosticism attributed falsehood or evil to the concept of the Demiurge or creator, though in some Gnostic traditions the creator is from a fallen, ignorant, or lesserrather than evilperspective, such as that of Valentinius. Level 2: While Wiccan has Mystical Destiny, he will transform into the Demiurge if you have at least 8 AP in all colors. He is currently engaged to Teddy Altman, aka Hulkling. Magic/Reality-Warping: Billy's main power is the superhuman ability to manipulate reality at will, enabling him to tap into the universe's store of magical energies, which he inherited from his spiritual mother the Scarlet Witch. A lot of comic books inspired WandaVision, including House Of M and the 1985 The Vision And The Scarlet Witch limited series (by writer Steve Englehart and artist Richard Howell.) John D. Turner, professor of religious studies at the University of Nebraska, and famed translator and editor of the Nag Hammadi library, stated[55] that the text Plotinus and his students read was Sethian Gnosticism, which predates Christianity. Emil Cioran also wrote his Le mauvais dmiurge ("The Evil Demiurge"), published in 1969, influenced by Gnosticism and Schopenhauerian interpretation of Platonic ontology, as well as that of Plotinus. Thus their understanding of the Demiurge is similarly flawed in comparison to Platos original intentions. Robert Reynolds, aka Sentry, descended into the room, prepared to tear the YA apart. Generally though, I'd agree with the take that trying to compare the power of two nebulously defined reality warpers is a bit silly. The mountain represents the Devil, or his world, since the Devil was one part of the whole of matter, but the world is the total mountain of evil, a deserted dwelling place of beasts, to which all who lived before the law and all Gentiles render worship. Billy and Teddy began to battle the Wrecking Crew, warning them against disgracing this sacred space. In a fight with Doctor Doom, both Cassie and Vision are killed. In the report of the system of Basilides,[23] we are told that our world was made by the angels who occupy the lowest heaven; but special mention is made of their chief, who is said to have been the God of the Jews, to have led that people out of the land of Egypt, and to have given them their law. Answer: Wiccan is a powerful magic user with a unique tie to Avengers history. People need to get over the fact that they potrayed it as him standing on the comic panels. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience.